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tv   American Politics  CSPAN  October 18, 2009 9:30pm-11:00pm EDT

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you probably know my next guest as detective munch, the longest running character on primetime. but you may not know that the actor, richard belzer is also a comic and author. his new book is called "i am not a psychic" and he joins me now. hi, richard. >> i hope people knew i was a comic. >> they kind of knew. >> maybe not an author. >> you're on -- >> 73 now. >> you know, talk about those days. do you miss them? >> you know what? i remember when i first started out, catch a rising star and the
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clubs on the improv. not having any money, sleeping on my brother's couch, taking the subway, eating colombo yogurt because it was 50 cents. when i was doing it, i knew it was the only thing i could do at this point. i looked at the romantic show business -- i'm in show biz even though i was cynical and bitter. i have this sense of magic and row ma r romance about it. >> about comedy? >> about the -- you asked how it was. >> you had a fantasy? >> being in the nightclub, the smoke in the air. i wanted to be in that world. >> i had a few comedians on the show already. some of us have had difficult childhoods. mine was pretty good. larry david said the childhood was fine, it was the adulthood that was difficult. did you a hard time as a kid? was that what prompted you to be funny? >> this's an old cliche, comics
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are suffered? you're a good example. you're not abused. >> not at all. i was adored. >> you're incredibly funny. you were able to do that. my feeling is this -- whether i was abused or not and i was whacked around a little as a kid, more than average, i was funny anyway. maybe the pain and all that stuff brought it out more, it was always there. you don't become brilliantly funny because someone abused you. it has to be indigenous to your being. >> it's a defense in a way. >> absolutely. if i wasn't funny, might have found another way to defend myself. >> a new study came out a couple of weeks ago who said the kids who are spank have had a lower iq. >> many other things too about spanking. along those lines -- i -- i saw this book years ago. i wish i could remember the name of it. someone went around to visit people who hid jews during the war. and in different countries. people who hit jews, they went, interviewed them, and they found
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two or three similarities between them. the first one was none of them thought of themselves as heroes. they say, you know, it's another person. and some of them, you know, really imperiled their lives and families who hid jews. and the other thing was every single person who hid jews were not hit as a child. >> they were not hit. >> they weren't afraid. >> that's interesting. >> isn't that fascinating? >> yeah, wow -- >> if you're hit as a kid, it's wired into your brain as an adult you're going to get hit. i've had problems for years sleeping at night because i'm 105 years old. but up until -- i didn't want to say how recently, i had trouble sleeping. on some level, she's going to come in any minute and beat the [ bleep ] out of me. it wasn't logical when she did it. >> the mother hit you, not the father. >> my father begrudgingly hit me. charlie, go kiss his -- >> yeah, your brother too? >> yeah, we were both whacked
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around. >> but the comedy in your case might have been a way of survive, you know? >> absolutely. >> when you have a tough time as a kid, even in school, i was funny in class because the teachers would scare me. >> you were bored. >> bored also. i'd start trouble, talk to people. start conversations. they pay me now to do the same thing i was doing then. >> now i get paid for what i got thrown out of school for. >> you're a big conspiracy theory person. >> yeah. >> yes. so hillary clinton brought up the vast right wing conspiracy in '98. >> yeah. yeah. >> she said it is this vast right wing conspiracy that's been conspiring against my husband since the day he was announced for president bchlt. h but this last september, bill clinton said it's still alive. it's not as strong because america has changed demographically, but as virulent as it was. is there really a right wing
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conspiracy in this country? >> i think it's open conspiracy. it's common knowledge that think tanks and the publishers on the right will buy ann coulter's list to get it on the best sellers list. they'll get in bed with so to speak with the religious right and demonize the left. it's clear -- i mean, from day one, they hated clinton and they tried everything they could do to destroy him. it's -- if it's a conspiracy, it's an open conspiracy. >> so do you think there's a conspiracy against obama now? >> well -- it's not a conspiracy. it's a -- on television every day. this is semantics. there's -- the right wing has a common interest which is to destroy obama and put their party before their country. that's what they've chosen to do. and i think the cat's out of the bag now. we see everyone cheering, we don't get the olympics and demeanoring the nobel prize. >> so un-american. >> and questioning where he's born. >> yeah. >> every single republican in
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the senate does not vote for health care reform, then, you know, it's like they shouldn't exist as a political party. it's the most callous, heartless, mean political expediency playing on the worst fears of the elderly and the poor. they're the most despicable pieces of human detractors, ever. >> do you think the american elect electorate is catching on to that or not? >> american people always have been or always will be moderate to left. not moderate to right. every survey we've seen since the '60s, would you pay for clean air? yes, a little more for good health care? yes. give the fireman a bill? is that socialism. you're not going to go to parks, public high schools, highways. the word social iism, which was a good thing. hitler named the party socialism because the connotation is everybody shares in the nation.
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>> not everybody. not the jews, not in his case. >> i'm not saying that -- not the way he used it. the way it was known before he used it was an all inclusive thing. in france, they have social democracy. free enterprise, capitalism, you take care of the disenfranchi disenfranchised. it's not a mystery. it's a rabid right wing. >> what about the racism question on obama? you said i'm concerned there are still some serious issues of race relations, for example, as everyo exemplify in the sotomayor confirmation hearings and be brutally honest about. people do skirt the racist issue quite a bit. they like to think it's not a racist country, but in a way, it is. >> in a big way, it is. redlining in banks. still see health problems among the blacks and the hispanics and poor people that people of means don't have the same health
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problems. we put pollution next to poor neighborhoods. there's so much discrimination just built into the fabric of america. but also, 70 million people that we know of, maybe more, voted for obama. >> yes. >> this is -- this is a triumph for this country which is steep in this racist -- >> will it hold? will it hold, do you think? that's what i'm worried about. >> that's because he's president. not because he's black. but although some people are trying to tie the two together. i think the fact that he became president will -- first of all, every black kid in america is one inch taller now. a black president. the self-esteem, for that alone, is a great thing. his presidency symbolically is important as it is politically, what he represents. >> they say he's not doing anything. bush did so many wrong things it's nice to take a break from too much negative action. >> i disagree in that roosevelt was fighting a war and rebuilding the country and doing
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50 things at once. he could do health care tore economy? health care is the economy. >> he is -- i have hope that he'll speed this up a little. >> he's like lincoln. a team of rivals that argue with him. >> i love that. i have to go. >> great to see you. >> i'm not a psychic, it's in stores now. the beautiful and talented valerie bertinelli stops by. stay right there.
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earlier this week, the
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beautiful and talented valerie bertinelli stopped by to discuss her new book, "finding it." my first question is, what did you find >> i'm still finding it. >> what is it? >> that whole weird thing about maintenance and finding what caused me to put the weight on, what i'm going to find to help me keep it off. just finding it in my weird bizarre life which isn't so weird because a lot of people have the same stories. >> highly relatable. are you kidding me? >> you talk about your marriage to eddie van halen, a great rock star, a cute guy, everything. how long was that marriage? >> well, i think we were married for 20 years. >> wow. >> but we were separated for some of it. i don't know, let's say -- i've known him for almost 30 years. >> wow. i can't believe you have -- it's that long? yeah, just looking at you as a girl. >> august of 1980, we met. so 29. >> time goes by so fast. yesterday, monica lewinsky was just a little girl under the
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desk. >> i just want to know why she didn't clean the freaking dress. are you disgusting or what? clean the dress. golly? i send my clothes in to be cleaned if they get dirty. >> looney tunes. >> a little bit of a discussion about extra-marital affairs in this boom. that's usually the reason people break up. not the baloney. i find myself, i need my space. that's a bunch of baloney. somebody is waiting in the wings. what happened there? >> by the time you start having affairs, something is obviously quite broken in the marriage. so obviously something was quite broken in our marriage early on. we kept up the good fight and we didn't quite make it. >> who was cheating on whom? >> you have to know who, when, where, why? we have a little -- we have a little thing going. ed thinks i did first, i think he did fist. we don't know about the timing. >> i'm interested. it's like the same conversation and why we eat.
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people stray in a relationship for an emotional reason, usually. >> not being emotionally fulfill in whatever relationship you're in. >> or you're a horny dog. >> that too. you're in your 20s. >> in i refer you to governor spitzer, for example, and some of the other dogs we keep reading about. >> edwards, yeah. >> they're out there hounding it up. >> yeah. >> with women -- >> we know how to hound it up once in a while too, unfortunately. >> we have a reason. >> we're given a get out of jail free card? no, no, no -- >> women cheat in the same way men cheat? >> cheating is cheating. it's wrong. you shouldn't do it. been cheated on and having been cheated. i have to say, i think the feeling -- it feels worse for me to have cheated on. that feeling of the pain i inflicted on somebody, i never want to do again. the good thing is now i'm in a relationship so i don't want to hurt that man ever like that. monogamy is in my life.
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if i think i cannot be monogamous with this man which i seriously doubt because he's really -- he's really good in bed. >> is he really? better than van halen was. >> you don't have to answer that. >> what time is this show on? i'm sorry, pop, i love you. hi, mom. i'm still a virgin, right. >> you're "like a virgin." >> right, had a child. 18 years ago. >> but what was i saying? >> i don't know, let's go get a drink. >> the thing about monogamy when you're younger, under 40, it's monogamy is monotonous. >> it depends on who you're monogamous with. >> it's difficult to stay monogamous when you're young. >> still sowing oats. >> still finding it. >> whatever that may be. >> right. >> so that's. >> the real weekend. >> getting married at 20 was stupid. i don't suggest anybody do that.
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i think more mature love that i'm going through right now, it -- i'm with my buddy. i really -- i enjoy his company. he's my best friend. i -- i don't want to hurt him. >> uh-huh. >> first of all, you name your son wolfgang william van halen. you left out the bertinelli fortunately for him. >> yeah. the poor guy. >> you named him after mozart, didn't you? >> amadeus. >> were you lying in bed postorgasmic one night and said wolfgang, that's the name for the kid. >> i love the way she says, wolfy, wolfy. trying to go up with a name that goes with van halen wasn't easy. his father's name is jan spelled j-a-n. i didn't want that to go in america. >> robert van hailen? >> no. >> tom vaananen? >> no.
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>> how about salvatore. >> mazarito van halen. >> i think wolfgang determines that the kid had to be in the business with the his dad. >> he has his dad's gift. >> what about you? you're gifted. >> what instrument does he play? >> he started on the drums when he was 9 and picked up the guitar when he was 12 or 11. then he -- his dad asked him to start playing the bass and he started playing the bass. >> he's talented. >> he is. he has a beautiful singing voice. oh, there's my boy. he's cute from the side. >> big boy. >> and he's now teaching himself piano. >> teaching himself in piano. kicks -- in rock band. >> does he sing too? >> yeah. he does. >> what about a the whole thing about him being a virgin? >> really, seriously? going to talk about that. i just got a text from my son. we're watching "the view" now. i got it a couple of hours
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later. are you still speaking to me? >> you're teasing about it. >> he's 18 years old. >> he's a virgin, right? >> whatever. he might be, might not. none of your business. >> if he's not, he's protected. >> let it go. >> don't want to talk about it. >> the other one you didn't want to talk about it. >> i talked about the sex talk and the sex talk that ed had with wolfy. >> you were listening to them. >> we orren the road. we were listening in the dressing room. i could hear ed talking. if you met my husband -- ex-husband -- he has this graveling voice. it's like wolfy -- he sounds like he's in the mafia. but he has this gravelly voice and he says be careful with what you do with your heart. once you fall in love, don't protect it so much that you don't let anybody in. protect her heart and treat her with kindness. i said this is all the stuff i would say bchlt carele of the skanks and wheres and bitches
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who want to date you because you're in a rock banld. i wou band. it's good information. i ran in to a few skanks and spoke to your son? >> i am. i may joke around but he's a really good dad. >> are you friends with eddie now? >> we're friend. i don't know if i would call him my friend or buddy the way tom is my buddy. i like him again and i fell out of like with him for a long time. i like him again. i like his new wife. they're good people. >> he got married again too? >> i was at the wedding. >> that's so nice. >> so was tom. tom was with me. >> once you have a child you're never really separated 100% from your husband. it's impossible. >> you must treat each other with kindness and must love your children more than you hate your ex-. >> i'm not letting you go yet. this woman isn't going anywhere. more with valley bertinelli when we return. because i won't shut up.
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valerie bertinelli and her boyfriend, tom, are sitting across from me. >> roped him in. >> we've been discussing vale e valerie's new book "finding it" and a lot more. welcome to the show. >> pleasure to be here. >> you two are an item how long? >> five years. >> you've been dating five years? are there wedding plans -- >> what did you call him the other day? >> a spousal equivalent. >> you're not going to get married? >> i don't want to do the seating charts. no one wants to be at table 17. >> how about you?
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>> she hasn't asked me yet. >> so she's -- if she asked you you would say yes? >> will you marry me? i didn't say that. >> where did you two meet? >> go ahead. >> at my brother's house in scottsdale, arizona. my brother patrick and his wife, stacey, were going to a wine event. i keep my wine in the pleaser, especially in scottsdale where it's hot as all get out. >> in the freezer? >> you get it out before it gets too cold. i bruise my wine all the time. i take it out before it gets too frozen and he was in front of the freezer. i saw this guy in a tux that looked like that. >> it was a black-tie event. we had a good time. >> you know, i said, oh, hello. i'm valerie and you are? >> uh-huh. >> like, uh, tom. >> what did you think about a big straw like her coming on to you, tom? >> yeah, yeah, it was difficult. i had to get used to it. >> did you -- >> i supplied her with
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champagne. >> every time my champagne glass would go down to here i'd have another one in my hand. that was before jenny craig. >> oh, he met you and fell in love with you before you lost the weight? that's a keeper. that's a keeper. >> i was big, too. i was 220. >> he's lost a lot of weight on the program. >> on the man it doesn't have the same effect -- >> he could -- >> criticize the woman. >> remember how big your belly was? not big anymore. >> oh the -- >> that's good. >> it's really something. we had a couple of e-mails for you. you want me -- questions for you from e-mail. there was a question from -- >> you can read that white house glasses? >> yeah. >> how old are you? >> older than you. check with "people" magazine, they print it every month. that magazine -- >> if they didn't print your birthday wouldn't you be offended? >> no. they do -- like lassie, 12. they're ridiculous. >> which lassie?
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>> i know. this woman, janice, i am on a very low-calory program now. i'm worried about web when i get back to real food. how did you handle that? are you still on jenny craig? >> yes, i am still on jenny craig. she has to turn her head around. if it's a super low -- i don't know how much weight she has to lose. in jenny as you start to incorporate other food into your program and get to a maintenance level, up your calorie count. >> you're off of the food they package for you at this point. >> no, i still eat it. >> you still do, but not 100%? >> no. some days i do eat it 100%. i'll want to have a nice, clean day and know what's going into my body. >> valerie, i just love you. i thunk you are adorable. you are my kind of girl. >> yes. >> i love -- tom, too. i think you're just a wonderful little couple. i love it. thanks to valerie and tom and
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all my guests for joining me tonight. thank you for watching. good night, everybody.
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breaking news tonight. satsuma, florida. a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she's gone, vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the nightshift to find not a trace of little haleigh. the last person to see the 5-year-old alive that night, the new stepmother, misty croslin. just hours after croslin handcuffed by cops on alleged road rage, she flies to new york, taking to the air to declare she's innocent. but even in one brief interview she can't keep her stories straight. first, claiming she knows nothing about haleigh's
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whereabouts, then blurting out the other side of the family took haleigh. then a 180 on the failed lie detector, claiming she passed. then admitting she failed. after her brother tells cops he was at the home that night, no sign of croslin, completely debunking her story. her mother says croslin's not coming clean. croslin's tv response? they betrayed me. they're the bad guys. look at them, don't look at me. minutes after croslin's debacle on national tv, her lawyer dumps her. bombshell tonight -- we know whenever the investigation heats up, croslin goes a-wol. but tonight, it's revealed her wingman, the woman who took her to orlando and new york, was working undercover to befriend croslin and get the truth. did it work?
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this while haleigh's dad publicly stands by his new bride, sources reveal in a fit of depression over haleigh, cummings threatens to shoot croslin dead if she's responsible. in the last hours, croslin and cummings file divorce papers in a florida court. what does it mean to the investigation? croslin claims the holes in her story have nothing to do with the split. but have cummings' worst fears been confirmed? that his new wife, misty croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his own 5-year-old girl? >> it's just divorce, i mean, i don't want a divorce, but it's what he wants so it's whatever. >> breaking news. the divorce papers between ronald cummings and the last person to see haleigh alive, misty croslin, have been filed. >> we gave her the papers. she's no longer represented by anybody. she looked them over.
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she took them to a notary, brought them back signed. >> the two of us have agreed to go separate ways and just with the family problems and everything else, it's just -- it's too much on the relationship. >> does ron still believe misty? reports emerge that ronald cummings investigated. a gun threat. allegations his attorney denies. what happened? >> why does ron continue through his lawyers to say that he's supporting misty and he's not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story when we thought he was divorcing her. he's still providing cover. he's probably his own worst enemy at this point. >> tips flooding in from across the nation. possible haleigh sightings caught on tape as misty croslin's mom transferred out of a tennessee jail. will she be questioned by police? >> i knew all along she had something to do with it. and this kind of proves it. she was the last one to see our daughter and her stories don't add up.
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>> if this girl keeps doing what she's doing, it's only a question of time before she's charged with something having to do with this kid's disappearance. she just repeatedly, repeatedly contradicts herself. tonight, live to pennsylvania, two mentally handicapped teens with the minds of a third and sixth grader, vanish. tonight, the search for two helpless handicapped teens. where are charles and donna? >> pennsylvania police are searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the poconos friday night. 18-year-old charles lack lockard and 19-year-old donna kiernan left around 6:30 p.m. headed out for a walk and haven't been seen since. a massive search was launched over weekend, with firefighters, residents and search dogs all
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out scouring the area for clues. authorities say the teens both have a sixth grade mental capacity and they are desperate to find them. state police say they plan to continue looking until the pair are found. good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. did a female friend go undercover to get the truth about the disappearance of 5-year-old haleigh? >> everybody knows that i love haleigh and ronald and junior. they're my family. just like haleigh want >> the last person to see haleigh alive is also the last ed. person to finally sign divorce papers. >> i think we both agreed on it. >> who brought it up first? >> i did. >> the divorce between ronald cummings and misty croslin now filed. will this boost the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old haleigh? >> i feel like it's on the other side of the family. that has her. that's just how i feel. >> do you feel that police have
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looked at everyone they need to look at? >> i don't think they looked at everyone as close as they have me. >> now that misty croslin's mom has been transferred out of a tennessee jail, will she be questioned by florida police? what does she know? >> if this family is willing to betray each other over a get out of jail free card, what does that say about her and who she is willing to betray? is she betraying ron, is she betraying haleigh? >> as over 4,000 tips continue to pour in, including possible haleigh sightings caught on video. >> i believe haleigh is alive. i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl and find her. >> straight out to art harris at i understand this is your story that you break that the wingman, the so-called friend that went to orlando and flew to new york with misty croslin was actually undercover? explain.
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>> that's right, nancy. donna brock, volunteer for texas equisearch, according to tim miller was working all the time to get close to misty so she could possibly glean information about what misty may know happened to haleigh. this was not known to police per se. she was not a, quote, agent of police, but she was working for texas equisearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to misty. >> art, where all did donna brock go with misty croslin, where did they travel? >> she picked her up in satsuma, they went to orlando, they wound up at universal, coca beach. they were on the road when everyone thought misty was on the run. but tim miller was wiring money to take misty to get her hair done, her nails done to try to get close to her and misty was really warming up very closely to donna, so this was something that was working until the road rage incident outed them both.
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>> wait a minute. wait a minute. are you telling me that the so-called undercover friend was the friend in the road rage incident that was driving? >> that's correct, nancy. they were off driving down the highway -- interstate 4, when according to tim miller someone tried to run them off the road, donna brock pulls alongside the car and gave this driver the finger then misty gives them the finger and that is when -- >> i heard the whole thing and i interviewed the woman who called the cops. now, art, put him up again, art, you're trying to tell me they were the victims? how come it was the other lady, the pharmaceutical sales rep that called police, to rat herself out? that doesn't make sense. >> it depends how threatened did donna brock, the driver, feel? she didn't feel threatened enough to call the police. but according to her, it was the other driver that forced her off the road. >> before we go off on the road rage incident, i want to get back to this. to marlaina schiavo, our
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producer on the story, did it work? did donna brock get anything out of croslin? >> unfortunately, nancy, it didn't work at all. all that happened at this point was that she got to travel around with misty and get to know her a little better and all she could gather was that misty has a temper that no one has seen. but other than that, there's been no new information that came from this new friendship. >> what do you mean by temper? >> apparently, she had witnessed a couple of conversations that misty had while they were on the road with ronald, and apparently she got really, really hostile with ronald at times and she witnessed her just not being very even tempered. >> take a listen to what one alleged victim of misty croslin's had to say.
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>> to top it all off, while ronald cummings has publicly stood beside his new bride, misty croslin, now we learn of threats? art harris, what can you tell
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us? >> that's right, nancy. tim miller went back to the house where ron was living with misty and tells me that ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had 32 -- it had 2 clips, 32 bullets in each and he threatened to blow misty's teeth to the back of her head and then kill himself and take others out with him, if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with haleigh. that's when he became afraid if anything happened to misty, the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to haleigh since police believe she's holding a lot more information than she's revealing. that's when he came up with this undercover mama idea to let donna brock go on the road with misty to see what she could get from her and get her away from ronald comings. >> to mark nejame, attorney for tim miller of texas equisearch, your attorney is certainly up in the investigation. hiring someone and paying a
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woman to go undercover to get the truth out of misty croslin. when he says he observed ronald cummings with a weapon, i thought the cops took all of the weapons out of the home the night haleigh went missing. >> i think if tim had an opportunity to do a do-over on this he would have. he did tell the police about this, but at the time the focus was on her polygraph, her voice stress analysis, the hypnosis, all of which failed. so he let them know, but a month or so later everybody said, whoa, there's a rifle in that closet and there's another child in the house. but at the time the focus was really on, you know, what is misty holding back and what is she not telling everybody? >> why won't she come down and sit with police and talk with them? >> i can't answer for you. i'm sure her attorney can answer it for you. we have talked to her about talking to the police. >> what did she say? >> she said she talked to them.
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i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. i walked in the kitchen and the back door was wide open. >> she told me when she woke up she always keeps the lights out. she says she woke up and noticed -- to go to the bathroom, but she noticed the kitchen light was on. she said she made it around the corner -- you had to, like, go around the corner, she noticed the back door was open. that's when she ran back to the bedroom and haleigh wasn't in there. >> i didn't notice about haleigh then until i seen the back door open and i go in the room and she's gone. and that's all i know. >> she went to haleigh's room. she wasn't in there. that's when she started calling.
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>> ronald, has the theory misty left the home sometime during the night been disproved? >> i'm not sure i believe that it has, nancy. i'm almost 100% sure but i wouldn't tell you that and lie to you. >> there's no way she could have wandered off? >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would no go anywhere by herself. >> but i know the little girl, she would not just get up and walk out that door in the middle of night by herself. >> do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, ronald? >> absolutely not. >> we are taking your calls live. out to ellen in california. hi, ellen. >> caller: i love your show, nancy. thank you for taking my call. >> thank you. yes, ma'am, thank you for calling in. >> caller: the twins are beautiful. >> oh, thank you. they're going to be 2 in just a few weeks. >> caller: lucy looks just like you. >> well, that's a compliment to me and i want to thank you for that.
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it's a dream come true. >> caller: lucky lucy. >> thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i think misty's stories don't jive because i think she's learning disabled. >> why do you say that? >> caller: remember the 911 call when they asked for her address? >> yes. >> caller: she gave the street. the 911 operator asked for the numerical and she said, what's that? >> okay. to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer who's been on the story from the very beginning. is there any sign that she is disabled? if she is disabled she's somehow managed to throw off the cops now for about nine months. >> yeah, well no reports like that, nancy. however, we do know misty croslin, although she's only 17 years old, has dropped out of school, has not gone to school for some time. some reports suggesting she
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dropped out as early as after the sixth grade. >> what about it, art harris? is that true? >> nancy, i've spoken to her grandmother in nashville, tennessee, who raised her during the crucial years of grammar school, sixth grade. she said she had a hard time with her homework. she had to sit down with misty. misty begged her to help her. only the grandmother had had a hard time, too. it had been a long time since she was in school. she says she does have learning disabilities and her parents did not make her go to school. this is a young woman, young girl who has not had the best education, nancy. >> out to peggy, washington state. hi, peggy. >> caller: hi, nancy. i just want to say i love your show the best because there's never any of this political stuff on it. it's just interesting things. >> peggy, thank you very much. i absolutely do not like politics. i don't believe either side. the republicans, the democrats, i think they're all lying. >> caller: me, too. >> okay.
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there you have it. what's your question, love? >> caller: i was wanting to ask you, back when haleigh was first discovered missing and it was, like, close to a week, i think, that two cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster that was, like -- >> right. >> caller: okay. what i want to -- thought at the time and i've never heard, when did the dumpster get emptied? i mean -- >> right, right. >> caller: usually are -- >> i remember that. what about it, ellie? >> well, nancy, we did hear reports the dumpster -- there was a hit by the cadaver dogs on the dumpster. they apparently thoroughly checked out the dumpster. they weren't able to find anything there. any signs of dna, blood, anything like that. i believe they also went and checked the dump where that dumpster would be emptied and didn't find anything there either. >> i believe the dumpster had been emptied, like, two days before? >> right, that sounds right. >> to mike brooks, mike, what do you make of the divorce and in your experience handling so many cases like that, how, if at all, will it effect the investigation? >> you know, if at all, nancy, i
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think it could help the investigation because, you know, ronald, the whole relationship right from the very beginning has been tumultuous from the time that he was -- the police report was taken. maybe now that, you know, ronald's not there to protect her, if you will, maybe she'll open up. instead of going up to the morning show at cbs she should have been with putnam county sheriffs talking to them about where haleigh is, period. >> they've been on me for six months. they haven't left me alone for six months. i've been the one. the main focus. @@@@@@@@@
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what time was haleigh last seen by anybody other than cummings and croslin? >> the last time i seen her was -- >> i didn't ask when you saw her. certainly you, as the biological mother, know the facts of this case. so when was she last seen by someone other than the father and the stepmother? >> that i don't know. >> have you asked her what happened? what does she tell you? >> i ask her, but that -- i
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don't get any answers from her about, you know -- i don't see -- what she's telling me is not inconsistent. >> bottom line, you don't know where haleigh is? >> bottom line. >> she pretty much tells me the same thing each time i ask her about it. >> she was the last one to see our daughter, and her stories just don't add up. >> i would have woke up if i heard any noise. i mean, i didn't hear anything at all. >> you've been in the trailer just like we have been and somebody pounding on the front door as close as her bed was to the front door, you would hear it. it's ten feet away. >> well, i think the children would have been more likely to hear it. >> i want to get to the bottom of what happened. one way or another i want my daughter to come home.
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>> joining me right now, president and founder of klaaskids foundation, marc klaas is with us. marc, you went through much the same thing when your daughter, polly, went missing many years ago. how do you compare all of these peoples' behavior to what you think should be the gold standard? >> well, first of all, i didn't have somebody like tim miller come in and play dangerously with the lives of my family, insert his amateurs in and betray us on a variety of levels time after time. these are very vulnerable people that we're dealing with right here. there's a little girl that's missing. he's supposed to be running a search operation. i run a search operation, but you know what? he's putting us in jeopardy. he's putting me, he's putting every other organization that
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runs a legitimate search operation in jeopardy because we require the trust and cooperation of law enforcement and the family whenever we get called into one of these cases and he's just breaking that down. if i were the putnam county sheriff, i would consider arresting tim miller for interfering in an investigation. i'm absolutely outraged by the things that i've heard tonight. now, before anybody gets too far off on misty here, and i, quite frankly, don't totally believe her story either. let's remember, my daughter, polly, was kidnapped in her bedroom while her mother slept soundly only ten feet away. exactly the same thing happened to elizabeth smart and to daniel van dam. entire families slept through these kidnappings. as preposterous as her story may be, it's not utterly impossible. >> what about it, mark nejame? you're the attorney for tim miller of texas equusearch.
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how did he come up with the concept, mark nejame, in response to marc klaas' questioning, to plant someone undercover against misty croslin? >> what's outrageous is mr. klaas' statements. tim miller is here to help find missing people. today he found his 102nd person. >> if you can just focus on the question. >> and he's found his 102nd person today. you think outside the box. law enforcement was at a dead end. every effort being made to find this child who was either dead or missing was utilized, and to find a child, you use any legal means necessary. there's not a rule book that says you can only do it one way. he should be applauded for doing whatever it took to help find a missing or dead child. to be criticized for that is wrong and outrageous. >> i want to go to ellie jostad, our producer on the story. ellie, i want to go back also to
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what ronald cummings allegedly said. publicly he stands beside his new bride, misty croslin. privately, according to sources, that would be miller, he threatened to blow her head off if she was involved? that doesn't sound like he believes her story. >> right. right. he did say that. he said, according to tim miller, tim miller says that ronald cummings said he would blow misty croslin's teeth out through the back of her head if he found out she did it. ron cummings' lawyer said ron does not remember making the statements but if he did it was similar to the 911 call, an emotional statement he said when he was very upset, similar to on the 911 call where he said, if i find whoever did this i'm going to kill them. i don't care if i go to prison. >> what about it caryn stark? psychologist from new york. weigh in, karen. >> i tell you, nancy, somebody may be very emotionally upset but don't necessarily start telling people they're going to kill them ar blow their teeth in or any of that stuff is going to happen. i really think this is such a travesty and such a circus that
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i'm waiting for the acrobats to come in. it's one ridiculous story on top of another. it's all very ludicrous. what about haleigh? isn't she supposed to be the focus? not the fact that misty is covering up and not telling anybody anything. someone should be really, really paying attention to what happened to her, what can we do to find out about her, and forget about all of who's killing whom and everybody blaming everybody else. >> to art harris at he's been there in satsuma for weeks on end investigating this story. what, if any, difference will the divorce make? in the last hours they have filed for divorce in a florida courthouse. >> nancy, it is keeping misty on edge, and that is hopefully what police are counting on to, perhaps, get, you know, some cooperation in the future. i can tell you she has met with police, with this undercover friend, and i'm told they told her, warned her that she could get life in prison if they're able to make a case against her.
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>> to dr. jennifer shu, pediatrician and author of "baby and child help." what would be haleigh's needs? let's assume the child is still alive. >> so haleigh had a condition called turner syndrome which gives you small stature and it also -- ovaries that don't function. what can also happen is heart problem, thyroid disorder and diabetes. those types of things could be life threatening to the point where if she wasn't getting the regular medical care she needed she could get very sick and die in a short period of time. >> out to the lines. lina in arkansas. hi, lina. >> caller: hello. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: i was wondering when misty's brother went there that night -- he said he knocked on one door and couldn't get a response, did he not go to the other door? wouldn't people naturally check the other door? >> good question. marlaina schiavo? >> he did not go to the second door, nancy. he only knocked on the front door, according to him.
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>> to sheryl in michigan. hi, sheryl. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: first off, i love your show. i have a question. if they know -- if they suspect that misty told her mother and brother anything and they have them in custody, why haven't they charged them with anything after the fact? >> okay. hold on. repeat the question, sheryl? if the mother and brother know something, why haven't they charged them? >> caller: or threatened to charge them after the fact? >> charge them with what? >> caller: knowing any information. after the fact. >> to renee rockwell and doug burns. in our jurisprudence and our legal system, renee, nobody is under a duty to be a good samaritan and come forward. if you're under oath on the stand and lie, that's perjury. if you're under oath on the stand and refuse to answer, that's contempt. but other than that, what else
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can they do? >> nancy, i think it's interesting the dynamic you have now. you have mom that's in jail and she's got $100,000 bond. she's about to be brought down to florida. i clearly think that they will approach her and say, okay, do you want to get out of jail? you need to tell us something. look at it. her husband's gone. her friend's a plant from tim miller equusearch. her mama's in jail and her brother's already flipped on her. i think it's getting close to her cracking. >> doug burns, my question was, is there any way these people, if they know something, can be charge charged without giving it up? >> the distinction is that as you said it perfectly, you're not required as a good samaritan to come forward. if you conceal information, then it becomes what -- a felony. the police asks, did you speak to mr. a, b, c -- no i didn't and it turns out you did, then you're concealing. >> what if you don't say anything at all? >> if you don't say anything at all you're absolutely right. everyone, quick break. we're taking your calls live. to tonight's safety tips.
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over 1 million people are victims of stalking every year. nearly always by somebody they know. if someone repeatedly calls you, follows you, sends you unwanted e-mails, letters, threatens you, randomly shows up where you are, even leaves unwanted gifts, you're being stalked. if you are in immediate danger, of course, call 911. otherwise, please document all of these incidents. save the voicemails, letters and any correspondence like e-mails and file police reports. tell everyone you know so the stalker cannot get access to personal info like your location, your plans. stalkers are unpredictable. if someone follows you, don't go home. go to a busy area and get help. for information go to
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straight out to bob matthews, wvpo news talk 840 960 a.m. bob, what happened? >> nancy, basically these two youngsters were getting together on friday night, going over to visit the youngman's grand moth the family was gathered outside the grandmother's house and charles lockard's sister went er. inside for a couple minutes. when they came back outside, both were missing and they didn't know where they got to. they thought, maybe they took a walk or wandered into the woods. then, of course, the family started to look for them around the property and started to panic when they couldn't find them. then lockard's father was running into the woods and said he heard his son screaming out, screaming out and all of a sudden the screams stopped and he started to panic.
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however, they didn't call police or fire officials until the next day as they continued to look around the property to try to locate the two youngsters. >> bob matthews, joining us from wpvo from strasbourg, pennsylvania. what did the father claim to have heard the son calling out? any words? >> he said he heard him calling "daddy, daddy, daddy." all of a sudden he said he heard it again and the third time he said he heard "daddy, da --" and it stopped abruptly. that's when his father became worried and started searching frantically. >> to matt zarrell, producer on the story. what can you tell me about their mental disabilities? >> the boy, charles, he's got the mental capacity of a third grader and donna has the mental capacity of a sixth grader, nancy. >> back to bob matthews. bob, what more can you tell me? what is the type of area? where are they missing? number two, why did they wait until the next day to call police?
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>> let's talk about the area where they went missing. it's a rural development and there are, you know, woods and swamps and bushes and cliffs out when you get into the deeper terrain, but other than that there are houses there mixed in amongst the trees. it wasn't like they were out in the middle of the forest. basically what happened, i guess from what i heard, there are conflicting stories back and forth as to why they didn't go to the police right away. some said they were nervous. some said they, you know, thought they could find them on their own and didn't really want to alert and alarm authorities. when the youngsters didn't come home and they couldn't find them, that's when they panicked and said we better call somebody and called state police and the penn township volunteer fire company. >> bob, that doesn't make sense. what would they be nervous about? >> some people involved in the case, and, again, this is just hearsay. i got this information from a third party. said that they had had some activity in the past with law
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enforcement, but they didn't really go into specifics or details. some people speculate they may have been afraid to go to authorities because they may have thought they were going to get into some kind of trouble. >> to mike brooks, former fed with the fbi. what do you make of it? i mean, these are two teens with the minds of a sixth and a third grader. they are helpless. >> absolutely. d.c., if we were looking for them, even if they thought they might have run away, nancy, or whatever the circumstances could be, it would be classified as a critical missing person because of their mental capacity. you know, this whole delay in calling 911, it just doesn't add up to me. doesn't make sense. you know, it could cost these children their lives for not calling the police when they should have called. >> to marc klaas, founder of klaaskids foundation. your expertise is looking for lost children. what should be done? and what has gone wrong? >> mike hit the nail on the head when he said the delay in contacting law enforcement may
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have been a critical mistake. one of the things they can do right now is ask all property managers, all real estate agents, farmers, ranchers, anybody that has access to unoccupied properties or outbuildings to please go and check those properties to see if the kids might be there. although they do not have -- although their mental capacity is challenged, they certainly understand the need to get shelter i'm sure. so i think that would be one place to start and that might end up solving the case. >> back to bob matthews, wpvo. bob, i had heard a report, but i want to confirm this with you, there are a lot of vacation homes in that area. there's about 3,000 homes is my understanding. is it true one of the homes appears to have been used by the two teens? they've been in there? >> yeah, nancy. the latest information we have from state police, there are a lot of homes in that area that unfortunately had been foreclosed upon. there are vacant homes in the
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development, the indian mt. lakes development. police say based on eyewitness accounts and people who saw these two youngsters that they had stayed in one of the homes saturday. when they went to investigate the youngsters were already gone. the teens had left the home. police are saying right now they think they are still somewhere within the development, but that's why, you know, with a program like yours and others, are still trying to get the word out in case, you know, they manage to slip their way out of indian mt. lakes and are out and about somewhere. as you mentioned a short time ago, the elements up there, the temps are supposed to drop into the low -- down around freezing. maybe even into the low 30s, upper 20s by the weekend. it's imperative they find the youngsters quickly. if they're in a home, these homes probably don't have the heat turned on and the electricity turned on. so that could pose a further danger. >> everyone, we are talking about two teens with the mental capacity of a third grader and a sixth grader. if they don't find shelter, they
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are in the elements. they are completely helpless and missing now for several days. tip line, 570-646-2271.570-646-. karen stark, how do people like this make their way in society? a third grade mentality and a sixth grade mentality. >> well, what happens is they get a lot of support, nancy, and they need to have people around them all the time who are helping them and a nice thing is that they found each other so they could support each other. what concerns me is the fact that they were yelling out. >> could they fall prey to a predator. they're their moral support to each other is not going to account for very much. renee, can the family be held responsible for not reporting them missing for so long? >> i would think so. this would be tant yamt to not reporting a third grader and sixth grader missing. >> everybody, as we go to break, we are taking your calls. i want to wish a very happy
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birthday to texas friend sue. she never misses a show. sue, happy birthday. #
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